Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by J on November 15, 2013 at 4:35pm

Living far north we don't have the luxury of sun for most of the year. And it rains the other half. There are plenty of par numbers published and there are enough alternative LEDs be it Par38 bulbs from Home Depot or an AI Sol there is a light to fit a budget that is cleaner or the environment uses less electricity and has a smaller foot print. There's no faking lumens per watt or par per watt. Check out buildmyled lights to see some par numbers of a planted tank led. The price isn't out of line with a nicer t5ho fixture from an LFS. I've not seen a perfect t5ho or halide reflector that doesn't cause tons of light out the side of the tank when hung. Link?

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Permalink Reply by Robert Jango on November 16, 2013 at 11:07am

When you get up close (really close) and examine the subject of lighting, you'll find you know almost nothing about the subject. I'm one of those people who know almost nothing. I reserve serious questions for real scientists. Using critical thinking to ask good questions is, in itself, a difficult task, and finding a real scientist to answer them is even more difficult.

I've read quite a bit about par and I know that par numbers are published. I also know almost nothing about par. Is that a contradiction?  No, Its my no-bullshit clause. I've built it into all my thinking and decision making. 

Not sure what you mean by "tons of light going outside the tank" and "Living far north we don't have the luxury of sun for most of the year." Unless you're on the North Pole you get sun everyday. And you also get sun when it rains. 

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Permalink Reply by J on November 16, 2013 at 6:13pm

The amount of sun changes wayy to much to be manageable with a co2 system.  We get from 6 hours of light up to 20 depending on the season.  Maybe if you actually spent time learning about PAR, PUR, PPFD and what the difference is between K and NM ratings.  You would quickly learn that LEDs are easiest to hit the specific NM ratings plants are looking for.  Kelvin is only a rating of how our eyes see the light and can be made up of hundreds of combinations of spectrum, some which will grow plants great the others won't do anything.  So saying you need 5,000k-7,000k isn't true in any regard.  While that might be an acceptable color to our eyes on plants it doesn't mean your getting the most out of the wattage your putting in.  I also reserve serious questions for scientist but do my best to find as much information as possible.  Hoppy on TPT was a lighting engineer for NASA for many years and help to grow the first plants in space using LEDs.  So you don't  know what your talking about but continue to perpetuate myths.  I guess ignorance is bliss.  Ive spent my time researching and have grown plants under MH, T5HO, T5NO, T8, CFL, and LED.  It took people a long time to get off the MH but is it really a question anymore that a T5HO is more efficient?  There is no question with enough PAR plants will grow, and LEDs can be tailored to provide very good par at only a modest lumen so us human don't get blinded.  Lumen and K are human observation PAR, NM, PUR, PPFD is what plants see.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Jango on November 17, 2013 at 11:11am

WOW!! Lots of really big words! And Hoppy too! 

Sorry Jeff, but my bullshit radar just went through the roof with that one. (By the way, did you come across BS radar In your research? It can detect a phony from miles away.) I'll examine one of your statements and dismantle it. After that continue your research, but stop using it to act like a know-it-all. Real research tells you how little you know.

Bonus Question.

What do you get when you cross a prostitute with a computer?

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Permalink Reply by J on November 17, 2013 at 4:45pm

Attacking the person not the topic.

Best of luck in your aquarium endeavors.

Jeff

Permalink Reply by Robert Jango on November 17, 2013 at 8:44pm

It was a personal attack Jeff but blame yourself. You started it with the "ignorance is bliss" remark. And while I agree with that ignorance is, indeed, bliss, you'll regret applying it to me.

You said, "We get from 6 hours of light up to 20 depending on the season"

Six hours is PLENTY of sun Jeff - and no footprint.   Hmm... Seems like someone as bright  as you would be able to manage the (very gradual) changes in the sun with a CO2 system, but we'll get to that later.......  

Because I don't have time to cast a critical eye on everything you said, I promised to "examine one of your statements and dismantle it". If I can't, it means YOUR THE MAN and I have no problem with that  (really) 

I do understand there is a difference between Kelvin and NM (nano-eters)  but lets go with your partial statement, " You would quickly learn that LEDs are easiest to hit the specific NM ratings plants are looking for"    

Break that down for me Jeff. Why is it easier to determine specific NM ratings with LEDs over flourescents? Make the explanation simple so morons like me and the people on FishtankTV can understand what you're saying.   

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Permalink Reply by NM on November 22, 2013 at 12:54pm

I've only been in the hobby for a few months, and I understand what he's talking about. Stop being ignorant.

Permalink Reply by Brad Dewys on November 22, 2013 at 7:10pm

Thanks for the reply, I'm in Ontario so a greenhouse is going to be a lot of work/expense to heat for about 6 months of the year, the tank will get a good bunch of natural light though.

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