Goldfish in the planted (dirted) tank.

Hello everyone,

Before I get to the meat of my first post, let me describe my current preferences, which is to say, the way I like my planted tanks. First, I am definitely a low-tech guy, one of the all-natural (or as close as I can get) variety. I like my tanks running on only mechanical and biological filtration: sponge filters, HOBs with sponge, floss, and ceramic rings. I'm also really getting into mixing up mineralized topsoil with clay, KCl, dolomite, etc, and capping with small gravel. I like my tanks heavily planted. I run 1-1.5 wpg--either T8s or T5s. I do not use any ferts--liquid or otherwise. I don't run CO2. Further, I like big 30-50% water changes weekly. I have naturally alkaline (Ph 8) and semi-hard water. I prefer to overstock on plants and understock on fish. Using this system that I've borrowed from others, I've carved out my own way of doing things and am seeing vibrant, healthy fish and fantastic plant growth in all four of my tanks.

Now, here is where I would really like all the advice and thoughts you can come up with. I have recently acquired a 55 gallon, and from the moment I saw it, I thought of keeping goldfish again. I did some initial research and have come up with mixed messages on goldfish in the planted aquarium. From what I've read, it would seem that it can be done successfully, but special attention needs to be paid as to the types of flora involved.

Can anyone recommend specific plants that goldfish will leave alone? Is it even possible to heavily plant a goldfish tank where the fish will not annihilate all of my work? How many goldfish would your recommend in such a setup? I would be running 2 30-60 filters (1 Aqua-clear and 1 Whisper), and a large (air-driven) sponge. Are there specific types of goldfish that you would recommend? I'm leaning toward Black Moors at the moment, but my opinion could be changed easily enough if there exists evidence enough to rule them out. I do prefer the hardiest species available, which is why, to this point, I've mainly focused on labyrinth fish, rainbow fish, and danios. Will goldfish tear through an inch of gravel and disturb my soil-mix? Also, will goldfish be okay in water temperatures required by my plants, 74-76 degrees?

Thanks in advance to any and all who take the time to read, consider, and respond to my first post in this fine forum!

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Permalink Reply by Robert Jango on March 7, 2012 at 6:00am

If you own a piece of land I would seriously consider keeping them outdoors year-round. That's what I do but I've never kept them inside. So what I have to say probably won't help much. But here goes:

Goldfish are carp - that's basically a hog that lives in water. They spend their life with their noses in the mud. I'd say Koi are the worst at this. Comets and Shubunkins the best (less inclined to dig.) And Fantails somewhere in between. I'm guessing you should keep a relatively thick layer of large sized gravel to keep the mud from rising. And make sure the gravel is rounded so they don't cut their mouths. You might get away with the finer sizes. I'm not sure.

What kind of food do goldfish like? Goldfish LOVE green water. My outdoor Comets lived in a pea soup and never bothered digging in the mud or eating anything I threw in. The suspended algae not only kept them alive but it turned these 5 cent fish into goldfish that actually looked like "gold" fish. They didn't touch my other plants, the mosquito larvae and even refused earthworms - except for the pregnant female. (The only fish I ever had that refused earthworms) But of course you won't want green water. So try to cultivate a side of the tank with an algae wall or feed them green wafers. The better fed they are the less apt they are to touch your plants. They're omnivores; so they'll appreciate meat in their diet. Earthworms are perfect and will keep their stomachs full. I remember reading that there are certain plants they won't touch but I can't remember which ones. Sorry. The key here is to keep them well fed.

They're not a cold water fish but they're not tropical either. I guess temperate is the word. Will they survive 75F? Sure. But their metabolism will race, their lungs crave O2, they'll eat more, and crap all over the place. And the high temp will also restrict the water's O2 holding capacity as you probably know. If you have a ton of plants don't be surprised if they're sucking for air in the morning. Plants consume O2 at night and emit Co2. Here's a crude way of determining your fish holding capacity: keep adding goldfish until they start gasping for air or hyperventilating. Then start removing them one by one. I still like the plant idea though. I have the same kind of set-up in a 180 - tons of plants, low fish count, and NO filter - ultimate low tech.

As far as your other points go:

I don't use ferts either. I use high CEC substrate that absorbs fish waste; so hopefully the soil will never be exhausted. But after a couple of years I may have to add some lily tabs. We'll see.

What is KCI and Dolomite?

As far as light goes I'm a big sun guy. Your goldfish will have more color and you know the plants will love it. If no sun then I guess any kind of light with enuf lumens and the correct color spectrum will do.

Love water changes. The more the better.

I think dosing with Co2 is ridiculous . Glad you don't.

Summary:

Wish I could help you naming plants that goldfish don't eat but I'm just not sure. Goldfish are really an outdoor fish. This is where they thrive. At least try to get them some sun, keep a low fish count (although goldfish like to school) and see if you can maintain a temp closer to 70F. Dustin loves Goldfish. He might know more

Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by Dustin Wunderlich on March 7, 2012 at 12:23pm

Great stuff guys!

Run the tank without a heater for sure... plants don't care. Use a huge airstone and no CO2.

Roberts got you. I would run a mountain of very fast growing plants ala jungle val and sag, as well as some anubias and java fern. Just plant heavy. I'd hit them with duckweed for sure, they love it and will keep them fed and happy. (they are always eating, always)

Use big gravel and like 1.5 inches over the dirt, but watch them and be willing to add more gravel. Fancies/moors are fine. Check out my really old video with Red Ryukin and the babies in a 29 at my old office. (red ryukin in a 29 i think)

I'd set up the tank for a month with heavy plant growth and no duckweed, add the goldfish and duckweed together to feed them imo.

You can never be certain, but your plan sounds good....and now I wanna goldfish tank!

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Permalink Reply by aceliven on March 7, 2012 at 12:57pm

Thanks a lot, Robert and Dustin! It's funny you mention the pond, Robert, because I've been digging one (on and off) for the last two weeks. It's taking forever because we have TONS of rock, coal, and clay through our land--and half the days are still too cold to do anything. Oh, and it turns out that my sledgehammer is missing, and my fifty year-old pick broke after the second day of excavation. So I've been left to my own devices with a rusty spade and a pry-bar. That said, I still really want to do this black moor 55 gallon tank. If it fails or if things get dicey, they'll have a few hundred gallons of an established pond outside by that time.

I'm thinking that I'll start with two around 4" or so. I'll do what you said with extra gravel and heavy planting first, Dustin. Then I'll add the fish and duckweed. Also, I'm digging the plant suggestions. Since I first got jungle val from you, I've been wanting to set up a tank with a huge wall of it in the background. Actually, I like the val so much, I could see myself one day doing an all Val tank with all the different variations I could find with maybe some sag and crinum thrown in the mix.

Anyway, thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate the advice, and if anyone else has any suggestions or comments they think might be helpful, please, by all means let me know. Dustin, I'll be wanting to put in another order with you to get the ball rolling on this in the near future. I'm still waiting on a part I need for the 55 (the center brace was cracked when I got it, so I'm replacing the top frame). My LFS is supposed to have the frame for me one week from today, so if that happens, I'll put in the order at that time.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Jango on March 7, 2012 at 3:01pm

It took me three months of working everyday to finish my pond. Just chip away at it. I hit bedrock at 4 feet; so guess how deep my pond is? That's right! 4 feet. I hit a vein of pure orange clay soil at about 1-2' and packed it away for the bottom layer of my indoor tank. I have rocky soil too - pain in the arse. I could go on forever but let me just say just three more things:

1) the bigger the better

2) Try to make it at least 3 feet deep if your in USDA zone 7 or lower.

3) Include shelves in your pond for bog plants

BTW the Jungle Val will survive the winter unless your in Alaska. We have grasses (Giant Sag?) in the ponds/rivers of Boston. This is where I get most of my plants. Definitely throw in a Water Lily.

My indoor tanks are reserved for exotic stuff like M. Lace although I may try to place it outside in the summer to boost growth.

Sounds like you got your hobby act together. Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by aceliven on March 7, 2012 at 6:12pm

Thanks for the encouragement, Robert. I know I'll get there, but I'm realistic enough to realize that it might take me until early summer. That said, I have the patience required. Good advice on the depth. I'm at around two feet at the moment (in most places), which I had earlier been told would exceed the minimum 18" recommended depth. I read that in a nondescript DIY article. I live in southern PA, which puts me in Zone 6, so I'll be sure to go down to at least 3ft.

As far as the hobby, well, I really enjoy it, though I'm not nearly as learned and experienced as I want to be just yet. When all the research and planning and effort finally pay off, it's always worth it. Until last year, I had been out of aquaria for 13 years. I'm glad I've returned, and I appreciate the support and advice from members of the community such as yourself.

Thanks again!

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Permalink Reply by Robert Jango on March 7, 2012 at 9:37pm

Keep everyone posted.

Don't be a stranger Aceliven.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Krieg on January 12, 2013 at 12:46pm

What part of PA? I'm in York. Curious how the pond goes for you. I've been toying with the idea.

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Permalink Reply by Barb Thompson on March 29, 2012 at 6:14pm

I'm doing the same thing. I saw an amazing planted goldfish tank on Google. They planted in shallow pots and buried them in heavy gravel I am going a step further as I just bought an 80g Osaka that came with larger river stones I will put on top of the gravel and pots. Plants I am trying are Onion plant, Swords and Java fern. I will add duckweed but from experience I will grow it in a separate tank as they will eat it all! I hope to keep the fish outdoors in my pond in the summer and indoors the rest of the year. Good Luck keep us posted.