Comment by Josh the reef noob on February 11, 2013 at 10:17am

Their container will be longer than it is deep. It hold 20 gallons of water but it won't have that amount in it. This has to be carried by 2 men then up 2 flights of stairs. 

Long&short + Water + Stairs =  Not gonna happen

I suggest putting some pineapples in a mason jar of moonshine, let it soak up the pineapple goodness. Then when you're ready, pour yourself a shot, then mix it with lemonade to dilute some of the alcohol since it's like 100 proof and there you have it! 

Comment by Faith-Magdalene Austin on February 11, 2013 at 11:48am

It's like this guy here and its got a lid. This is what I meant by longer than it is tall. 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Rubbermaid-12.5-Gallon-50-Quart-Roughneck...

i don't really like pineapple or fruity drinks. might you suggest something else. the lemonade part sounded nice. oh hey, there's a drink i heard about that's lavender and gin. 

Comment by Josh the reef noob on February 11, 2013 at 12:13pm

Oh okay I thought it was one of those really short, long containers. Like a foot tall at the most, lmao.

You could always pick up some mikes hard lemonade?? That stuff tastes pretty damn good, you can forget you're drinking alcohol. ahah

Comment by Robert Jango on February 11, 2013 at 12:17pm

Congratulations on the move!

Alcohol may ease your tension and perhaps smooth things over, but it could also cloud your judgement and dehydrate you. Be careful! Doing what you're doing now - planning - is the best way to calm your nerves. But if you must take something, go with whatever your body handles the best and I'm sure you know better than anyone else what that is. Weed might be an option, but If you've never tried it, now would not be a good time to experiment. It has different effects on different people. Generally speaking, people whose bodies cannot metabolize alcohol very well (East Asians for example) say Johnny Walker (black label) doesn't bother them. I had some Blue label ($200 a liter) a few years ago and it actually improved my dexterity. I went to a batting cage with a group of friends and was consistently nailing fast balls. One of my friends even thanked me for not getting drunk that day! 

The fish...

The Rubber Maid tub is good. Won't poison the fish and contains plenty of surface area. Keep in mind that water weighs 8+ lbs per gallon. So one fifth full (3-4 gallons) is plenty and will weigh about 30 lbs. Bring covers.

As soon as you get to the new home get the fish the hell out of the tubs and into the tanks. You won't need filters for the tubs and screw the recycling BS. Just change their water every few days for a month. Flush their waste down the toilet like we do with our own waste and replace it with pure, fresh water. The water in my week old cichlid fry tanks is changed twice a day. Its one of the keys to being a successful breeder. In fact, I don't use filters in any of my tanks including the breeding Discus tank - just an airstone.

You might need some chloramine remover. And some people on this site swear by Novaqua (spelling?)  If your municipality only uses chlorine you may not need anything. Just use an airstone and let the chlorine evaporate out in 24 hours. 

Your plants don't care. If they're out of the tank for extended period of time, just make sure they get some light. 

Look at the move this way. Your tanks are getting a nice overhaul and cleaning. Use this opportunity to scrub them down before you refill them.

Comment by Faith-Magdalene Austin on February 11, 2013 at 6:20pm

OK. That'll do her then. And yes, it's a good time to do a really good cleaning of the tanks and their contents. Thank you for the info on the water changes and such. I was worried I couldn't just drop them in the tank like that. My area uses only chlorine so I'll use my two air stones. I've got two 18 inch air stones that are in the 60 gallon long tank that can be adjusted to different strengths. 

For the move itself I've got good size rubber made tubs for everyone & medicinal grade weed for me. Because a crew is doing the lifting and moving it won't matter that I'll be 'medicated' before, during and after the move. 

Faith

Comment by Robert Jango on February 11, 2013 at 9:46pm

Yeah, I personally can't handle weed. But, from what I've seen in other people, it seems to have a calming effect - diffuses tensions and such. I'm much more afraid of someone who's had too much alcohol. 

I stopped using filters years ago. They're filthy - trap waste, hold it within the tanks circulatory system, and distribute the "smell" throughout the tank. Think about it: would you rather store your fecal material in a bathroom container designed to break it down over time, or would you rather flush it down the toilet? 

And now I'm starting to hear nasty things about canister filters from chemists. Remember when undergravel filters were all the rage?  The people who market and sell this crap are out of control, but I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. Its true that filters hold beneficial bacteria, but think about how much beneficial bacteria the root system of a single Wisteria plant can hold and how much nitrogenous waste it consumes. Some kind of hydroponics system is the way to go. That or regular water changes. Its no accident that most Asian Discus breeders are not using filters. (Discus require perfectly clean water.)

The kind of filters that trickle water through stuff and down into the tank from a waterfall are ok though. 

Comment by Faith-Magdalene Austin on February 11, 2013 at 11:59pm

I was going to ask you about how to do a tank without a filter. I've always questioned those things. And I never believed the hype of an under gravel filter, maybe because I came into this passion after the real info on them came out. 

I've heard of running a tank without a filter but it's not been explained to me how to do it and what the requirements are. Maybe I'm one of those people who needs it spelled out for them in easy to read format. Most articles I've read on it have muddied the waters of the article by adding so much extra information and tiny little details that I got nothing from it. Have you ever asked a yes or no question but instead got a one hour speech? I hate that. Have you ever tried to look up a simple question on the net but can't get a straight answer because people write stuff like, "it depends'. Frustrating. Other stuff I've read was like, don't use a filter, but they never said how to transition from one to the other or if a transition is needed. I suppose when it comes to some things I need a fish therapist, someone I can go to and ask specific questions about my fish tank's aqua feelings ...and not be judged for stupid questions. 

Here's my first question...and don't laugh.... can you run a tank without a filter if you only have plastic plants?

My plants are in gravel substrate, not dirt. Can I still do a tank without a filter if its gravel not dirt? I've got Wisteria, Red ludwigia, Moneywort, Java Fern and Anubias.

You know what? Now that I think about it, this is how my betta tanks are run. They're live planted with gravel. I do regular water maintenance on them. It would be like doing that on a larger scale, right?

I've always done regular water changes. Every Sunday most of the tanks get a 25% water change. Would that even be close to enough for a 60 gallon tank without a filter? 

I'll be setting up the tank in the new apartment. Should I decide to go without a filter, is there anything specific I should do when setting it up?

Maybe I over think things...... 

Faith

Comment by Faith-Magdalene Austin on February 12, 2013 at 12:00am

@ Josh,

mikes hard lemonade - yum

Comment by Robert Jango on February 12, 2013 at 12:57am

I'm gonna write a thoughtful response to your last post, but first I'm gonna consult my fish therapist, Jim Carmark, one of the foremost authorities on aquariums in the world. He works during the day as a professional chemist and is also a consultant for the New England Aquarium. I'll still give you my take on the subject (filterless aquariums) but also try to back it up with a little science.

For years I've been drifting further and further away from the idea of having filters but have never really stopped to understand why. So, why not take this opportunity to organize my thoughts and settle the subject in my own mind?  I'm actually glad you asked me about it.

Diana Walstad, whose book about filterless aquariums is a bestseller in the hobby, will be conducting an interview with Rus and Kelly Wilson on the aquarimax.com podcast pretty soon - I'll let you know when. I don't know how Rus landed her (she's a recluse) but he's a scientist like her; so maybe there's some professional courtesy involved. There's no way I'm gonna read Diana's book (its a tough read - heavy on chemistry) but I will listen to the interview and email Jim Carmark with some questions.  Gimme a week to put together a thoughtful response for you (and me).

Comment by Robert Jango on February 19, 2013 at 7:33am

Faith, I spoke to Jim Carmark tonight at the monthly Boston Aquarium Society meeting. We only had about 10 minutes together; so I asked him about raising Discus fry without the parents. Its urgent because I've got Discus eggs. But my discussion with him about filtration/aquarium ecology will take at least an hour - probably more. So we're going to meet at his house this week or next - not sure. I'll send you an outline of the the meeting. It'll be in simple and easy-to-understand language because, frankly, I'm incapable of anything else. It'll be a nice preface for whatever I finally post.  

In the meantime, I've picked up a few ideas...  

To my surprise, Seth Roach's concept of a planted tray on top of an aquarium popped up on internet radio show among some pretty smart people. And aquaponics, in general, is getting a lot of play from the scientific community these days. But there's nothing like one-on-one meetings - so I'm waiting to talk to Jim. He's proven that he understands the science part of the hobby. And because of him, and other scientists like him at the New England Aquarium, I've started venturing into subjects like filtration - a subject I never would have touched years ago - afraid that my unguided efforts would fall into the hands of unscrupulous "experts" lurking in every pet store and hiding behind every fish website. Shysters spreading their unique form of  American cancer - advertising. Now that I have a fish therapist, life is so much easier!  (I'm just hoping I won't have to read Diana Walstad's book or take a course in chemistry to get through this subject. God forbid!)

Here's where I stand on filtration right now: frequent water changes are the only way to guarantee optimal water. I definitely hope this changes in a few weeks or can, at least, be altered. But we'll see. Nobody, especially me, likes changing water. As for my one gallon containers with the tiny newborn Discus... they'll never run off of filters. Its one complete water change after each feeding - eight feedings per day. 

PS.

Just noticed the paintings you posted a while back...

...not very scientific. And greatly appreciated.

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